[WSMDiscuss] Turtle Island in movement… : Fwd: [Debate-List] Re-imagining history : Turtle Island before Illegal Immigration

[Jai Sen]

September 20, 2017

Turtle Island in movement…, Ideas in movement…

[This post is a comment on and withdrawal of the post I did the other day, as below (‘Re-imagining History : Turtle Island before Illegal Immigration’, September 19).  Although I’ve not yet heard back from the person whose post I forwarded, Neville Adams (I request him to send us the source from which he'd got the map he posted - Neville, could you even now send that ?), I've now got a reaction from someone who is, let’s say, an authority on the history of First Nations / Indigenous Peoples on Turtle Island (‘North America’) and who I respect a great deal, Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz – and who says that this map is “a completely flawed map or maybe a joke”.

            She’s busy with getting two books out though, and doesn't have time to do a full critique right now, and so I've put together a note based on the comments she has sent me that I urge that all those of us who looked at the map I posted, to now read.

I want to add that I’m also doing this as soon as possible precisely because maps are sort of hypnotic, and tend to infiltrate and capture our imaginations and become ‘The Truth’ – and so I want to quickly correct the record here :

______________

Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz : This is a supremely flawed map!  Two clues : One, the use of the Eurocentric concept of “empire”.  [Indigenous Nations did not have this concept or call themselves this.]  I didn’t look that closely at the graphic, but “empire” stands out and is pretty much a deal-breaker for me.

But, I also noticed that the map has the Comanche nation as only a very tiny part in what became New Mexico/Texas after the US annexation of the northern half of Mexico.  But though the map is supposed to be pre-colonial, the Comanches migrated from their original Shoshone Nation in the Wyoming area into the Spanish empire and became horse traders, developing a new identity as Comanches. They were horse and gun traders, middlemen for the Spanish empire, also brought the Shoshone buffalo culture with them, but were considered obstacles to the US empire, so genocidal campaigns were inflicted on them, especially carried out by the Texas Rangers.

But, they never had a clearly demarcated territory until they were forced on a reservation in Oklahoma Territory in the late 19th century, where they still live alongside other relocated Plains buffalo people after the buffalo were wiped out to starve those nations.

These two total errors—empire and ignorance about the Comanches—lead me to think that it’s a completely flawed map or maybe a joke.

______________________

[end]

JS : So first, thanks Roxanne for taking the time to comment; second, given this reading I apologise to all on this list and who are received that post for posting that map without comment or attribution; and third, I of course ask you to also please now erase that map from your memories, both bodily and digital !

            On the other hand, I would welcome any other / further comments anyone has on that map, and also on this reading by Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz.

            JS

(A leading Native American historian and activist and a well-known radical author in the US, Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz is the author of The Great Sioux Nation : An Oral History of the Sioux Nation and its Struggle for Sovereignty and of An Indigenous Peoples’ History of the United States.)
 
 



> On Sep 19, 2017, at 9:43 AM, JS CACIM <jai.sen at cacim.net> wrote:
> 
> Tuesday, September 19, 2017
> Turtle Island in movement…
> [Without comment; it needs none – except that, a little unfortunately, the post doesn’t give any source, and so I anyway have no idea of how authentic or otherwise this re-imagining of history is… :
> Re-imagining History :
> Turtle Island before Illegal Immigration
>             Thanks for posting this, Dr Adams.  In case you have the source / attribution, could you please post it ?  Thanks.
>             JS
> fwd
> 
>> Begin forwarded message:
>> 
>> From: "Neville Adams" <nada01 at claranet.co.uk <mailto:nada01 at claranet.co.uk>>
>> Subject: [Debate-List] Re-imagining history
>> Date: September 18, 2017 at 7:09:53 AM EDT
>> To: <debate-list at fahamu.org <mailto:debate-list at fahamu.org>>
>> 
>>  
>>  
>> Dr. Neville Adams
>> Bricoleur
> 
> 
> <North America.jpg>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________
> Jai Sen
> jai.sen at cacim.net <mailto:jai.sen at cacim.net>
> www.cacim.net <http://www.cacim.net/> / http://www.openword.net.in <http://www.openword.net.in/>
> Now based in New Delhi, India (+91-98189 11325) and in Ottawa, Canada, on unceded Anishinaabe territory (+1-613-282 2900) 
> Recent publications :
> Jai Sen, ed, 2016a  – The Movements of Movements, Part 1 : What Makes Us Move ?  and  Jai Sen, ed, 2016b – The Movements of Movements, Part 2 : Rethinking Our Dance (both forthcoming in 2017 from New Delhi : OpenWord and Oakland, CA : PM Press), ADVANCE PREFINAL ONLINE MOVEMENT EDITIONS @ www.cacim.net <http://www.cacim.net/>
> FORTHCOMING PUBLICATIONS  :
> Jai Sen, ed, 2017a – The Movements of Movements, Part 1 : What Makes Us Move ?.  Volume 4 in the Challenging Empires series (New Delhi : OpenWord and Oakland, CA : PM Press).  Available for pre-order at PM Press <http://www.pmpress.org/>
> &
> Jai Sen, ed, 2017b – The Movements of Movements, Part 2 : Rethinking Our Dance.  Volume 5 in the Challenging Empires series (New Delhi : OpenWord and Oakland, CA : PM Press)
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______________________________
Jai Sen
jai.sen at cacim.net <mailto:jai.sen at cacim.net>
www.cacim.net <http://www.cacim.net/> / http://www.openword.net.in
Now based in New Delhi, India (+91-98189 11325) and in Ottawa, Canada, on unceded Anishinaabe territory (+1-613-282 2900) 
Recent publications :
Jai Sen, ed, 2016a  – The Movements of Movements, Part 1 : What Makes Us Move ?  and  Jai Sen, ed, 2016b – The Movements of Movements, Part 2 : Rethinking Our Dance (both forthcoming in 2017 from New Delhi : OpenWord and Oakland, CA : PM Press), ADVANCE PREFINAL ONLINE MOVEMENT EDITIONS @ www.cacim.net <http://www.cacim.net/>
FORTHCOMING PUBLICATIONS  :
Jai Sen, ed, 2017a – The Movements of Movements, Part 1 : What Makes Us Move ?.  Volume 4 in the Challenging Empires series (New Delhi : OpenWord and Oakland, CA : PM Press).  Available for pre-order at PM Press <http://www.pmpress.org/>
&
Jai Sen, ed, 2017b – The Movements of Movements, Part 2 : Rethinking Our Dance.  Volume 5 in the Challenging Empires series (New Delhi : OpenWord and Oakland, CA : PM Press)
CHECK OUT CACIM @ www.cacim.net <http://www.cacim.net/>, OpenWord @ http://www.openword.net.in <http://www.openword.net.in/>, and OpenSpaceForum @ www.openspaceforum.net <http://www.openspaceforum.net/>
AND SUBSCRIBE TO World Social Movement Discuss, an open, unmoderated, and self-organising forum for the exchange of information and views on the experience, practice, and theory of social and political movement at any level (local, national, regional, and global), including the World Social Forum.  To subscribe, simply send an empty email to wsm-discuss-subscribe at lists.openspaceforum.net <mailto:wsm-discuss-subscribe at lists.openspaceforum.net>
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