[WSMDiscuss] Fwd: A message to the Army community about civil unrest (US Army)
Jai Sen
jai.sen at cacim.net
Thu Jun 4 23:39:26 CEST 2020
Thursday, June 4, 2020
Hi Brian
Thanks for this, and thanks for copying Riaz in. Just to explain, Riaz is not on WSMDiscuss, and we have ‘met’ over another list, Debate, where he regularly posts (and posts things of a nature not unlike yours on WSMDiscuss – insightful, probing – and / but where he also, at times, comes in more actively in debate with what others post). In this case, and before, I therefore forwarded his post on Debate onto WSMDiscuss (and other lists).
Thanks for checking out the website ink that came with the article. To be frank, I had thought of also doing this, but given that it was Riaz who had done the original post, I set that aside and went straight ahead with forwarding it. But I agree, it is important to check the provenance of the site.
Even as I was writing this message, I see that Subbu (Sastry) has now checked various angles and responded in detail, and at a more technical level than I can. (Thanks, Subbu.) But let me give my layperson’s response anyway – which is also my duty, as the person who did the post on the list.
I too have therefore now checked the site at the link given, and well, I have to confess that it does seem less ‘official’ – and simpler and more informal - than I would have expected of a site associated with the army, but I’m wondering whether this reaction is not because I'm more familiar with official websites in India than I am in this part of the world.
I also checked out some of the articles to which there are links given there, and frankly, though they do seem a bit banal, they did not raise alarm bells in me. I similarly checked out – on DuckDuckGo – who the person mentioned as ‘Secretary to the Army’, and it matched (name-wise, photo-wise). Not that this is a rigorous background check, but so far, it also seems okay, to me.
So, Brian, can I now also ask you to explain why you say that this appears to be a dummy site to you ? And even though I was myself a little incredulous to see the contents ? Which, and since I’m now writing in more detail, does seem very carefully constructed – but here not signaling that it’s not genuine but rather that the authors might be trying to tread carefully between giving a routine reassurance to serving members during very difficult times but also a message between the lines.
Riaz, do you have anything to add ?
Jai
> On Jun 4, 2020, at 5:28 PM, Subramanya Sastry via WSM-Discuss <wsm-discuss at lists.openspaceforum.net> wrote:
>
> And, English wikipedia confirms that .mil is the top level domain for the US military - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.mil <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.mil> So, while I am in somewhat of a pleasant shock about the message that triggered my (and perhaps your) skepticism, I am quite certain at this point that the message is indeed an official US Army message. -Subbu.
>
> On 6/4/20 4:17 PM, wsm-discuss at lists.openspaceforum.net <mailto:wsm-discuss at lists.openspaceforum.net> wrote:
>> And also, https://twitter.com/ArmyChiefStaff/status/1268222554382249985 <https://twitter.com/ArmyChiefStaff/status/1268222554382249985>
>> Subbu.
>>
>> On 6/4/20 4:14 PM, Subramanya Sastry wrote:
>>> I clicked on the twitter link from www.army.mil <http://www.army.mil/> and was taken to https://twitter.com/USArmy <https://twitter.com/USArmy> which indicates it is the official army twitter account and clicked on the website link in the profile which brought me back to www.army.mil <http://www.army.mil/> ... so to me, that indicates this is the army's website.
>>>
>>> How did you infer this is a dummy site?
>>>
>>> Subbu.
>>>
>>> On 6/4/20 4:05 PM, brian at radicalroad.com <mailto:brian at radicalroad.com> wrote:
>>>> Jai, I have just visited the website link that you have forwarded [https://www.army.mil/article/236157/a_message_to_the_army_community_about_civil_unrest <https://www.army.mil/article/236157/a_message_to_the_army_community_about_civil_unrest>].
>>>>
>>>> From my quick perusal it appears to be a dummy site, and almost certainly NOT something that has emerged from any remotely-official channel within the U.S. military. I do not know the person who posted it to you, nor have I seen that person on this list before, but I think that it is imperative to verify the providence of such a post.
>>>>
>>>> Brian
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 4 Jun 2020, at 3:48 pm, Jai Sen <jai.sen at cacim.net <mailto:jai.sen at cacim.net>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Thursday, June 4, 2020
>>>>>
>>>>> Viruses in movement…, Resistance in movement…, The US in movement…
>>>>>
>>>>> [The US is aflame, people are afire… and things are happening, things are changing; and here, another huge and extraordinary development in the US, nothing less than what seems to be a Letter from the US Army at high levels to the entire Army community, politely but firmly pushing back - read, 'rebelling against’ - their Commander-In-Chief… To be read carefully, and also in between the lines… What the consequences of this are going to be, is anybody’s guess :
>>>>>
>>>>> Every Soldier and Department of the Army Civilian swears an oath to support and defend the Constitution. That includes the right of the people peaceably to assemble and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. We will continue to support and defend those rights, and we will continue to protect Americans, whether from enemies of the United States overseas, from COVID-19 at home, or from violence in our communities that threatens to drown out the voices begging us to listen. To Army leaders of all ranks, listen to your people, but don’t wait for them to come to you. Go to them. Ask the uncomfortable questions. Lead with compassion and humility, and create an environment in which people feel comfortable expressing grievances. Let us be the first to set the example. We are listening. And we will continue to put people first as long as we are leading the Army. Because people are our greatest strength.
>>>>>
>>>>> A message to the Army community about civil unrest
>>>>>
>>>>> US Army
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks, Riaz, for this extraordinarily important post !
>>>>>
>>>>> JS
>>>>>
>>>>> fwd
>>>>>
>>>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Ryz Tyb <riaz.tayob at gmail.com <mailto:riaz.tayob at gmail.com>>
>>>>>> Subject: [Debate-List] A message to the Army community about civil unrestBy U.S. Army
>>>>>> Date: June 4, 2020 at 2:07:36 PM EDT
>>>>>> To: Debate List <debate-list at fahamu.org <mailto:debate-list at fahamu.org>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A message to the Army community about civil unrest
>>>>>>
>>>>>> By U.S. ArmyJune 3, 2020
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.army.mil/article/236157/a_message_to_the_army_community_about_civil_unrest?fbclid=IwAR37yQOSYsjttjGkprX_lfcj0boidGUTtkbxZJnXNbWWptEDOzL3S49PTEU <https://www.army.mil/article/236157/a_message_to_the_army_community_about_civil_unrest?fbclid=IwAR37yQOSYsjttjGkprX_lfcj0boidGUTtkbxZJnXNbWWptEDOzL3S49PTEU>
>>>>>> <>
>>>>>> Dear Soldiers, Civilians, Family members and Soldiers for Life:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Over the past week, the country has suffered an explosion of frustration over the racial divisions that still plague us as Americans. And because your Army is a reflection of American society, those divisions live in the Army as well. We feel the frustration and anger. We felt it this week while traveling through the nation’s capital with the DC National Guard. We feel it, even though we can never fully understand the frustration and life experiences of people of color, in or out of uniform. But we do understand the importance of taking care of people, and of treating every person with dignity and respect.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Our ability to defend this country from all enemies, foreign and domestic, is founded upon a sacred trust with the American people. Racial division erodes that trust. Though we all aspire to live by the Army values of loyalty, duty, respect, selfless service, honor, integrity, and personal courage, the Army has sometimes fallen short. Because just as we reflect the best of America, we reflect its imperfections as well. We need to work harder to earn the trust of mothers and fathers who hesitate to hand their sons and daughters into our care. How we respond to the anger that has ignited will chart the course of that trust.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Every Soldier and Department of the Army Civilian swears an oath to support and defend the Constitution. That includes the right of the people peaceably to assemble and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. We will continue to support and defend those rights, and we will continue to protect Americans, whether from enemies of the United States overseas, from COVID-19 at home, or from violence in our communities that threatens to drown out the voices begging us to listen. To Army leaders of all ranks, listen to your people, but don’t wait for them to come to you. Go to them. Ask the uncomfortable questions. Lead with compassion and humility, and create an environment in which people feel comfortable expressing grievances. Let us be the first to set the example. We are listening. And we will continue to put people first as long as we are leading the Army. Because people are our greatest strength.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> God bless all of the people of our United States Army: our Soldiers, Families, Civilians, and Soldier for Life retirees and veterans. And God bless the United States of America.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Michael A. Grinston
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sergeant Major of the Army
>>>>>>
>>>>>> James C. McConville
>>>>>>
>>>>>> General, United States Army
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ryan D. McCarthy
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Secretary of the Army
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ____________________________
>>>>>
>>>>> Jai Sen
>>>>>
>>>>> Independent researcher, editor; Senior Fellow at the School of International Development and Globalisation Studies at the University of Ottawa
>>>>>
>>>>> jai.sen at cacim.net <mailto:jai.sen at cacim.net>
>>>>> Now based in New Delhi, India (+91-98189 11325) and in Ottawa, Canada, on unceded and unsurrendered Anishinaabe territory (+1-613-282 2900)
>>>>>
>>>>> CURRENT / RECENT publications :
>>>>>
>>>>> Jai Sen, ed, 2018a – The Movements of Movements, Part 2 : Rethinking Our Dance. Ebook and hard copy available at PM Press <http://www.pmpress.org/>
>>>>> Jai Sen, ed, 2018b – The Movements of Movements, Part 1 : What Makes Us Move ? (Indian edition). New Delhi : AuthorsUpfront, in collaboration with OpenWord and PM Press. Hard copy available at MOM1AmazonIN <https://www.amazon.in/dp/9387280101/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1522884070&sr=8-2&keywords=movements+of+movements+jai+sen>, MOM1Flipkart <https://www.flipkart.com/the-movements-of-movements/p/itmf3zg7h79ecpgj?pid=9789387280106&lid=LSTBOK9789387280106NBA1CH&marketplace=FLIPKART&srno=s_1_1&otracker=search&fm=SEARCH&iid=ff35b702-e6a8-4423-b014-16c84f6f0092.9789387280106.SEARCH&ppt=Search%20Page>, and MOM1AUpFront <http://www.authorsupfront.com/movements.htm>
>>>>> Jai Sen, ed, 2017 – The Movements of Movements, Part 1 : What Makes Us Move ?. New Delhi : OpenWord and Oakland, CA : PM Press. Ebook and hard copy available at PM Press <http://www.pmpress.org/>
>>>>>
>>>>> SUBSCRIBE TO World Social Movement Discuss, an open, unmoderated, and self-organising forum on social and political movement at any level (local, national, regional, and global). To subscribe, simply send an empty email to wsm-discuss-subscribe at lists.openspaceforum.net <mailto:wsm-discuss-subscribe at lists.openspaceforum.net>
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>> ** Inspired by the World Social Forum, WSMDiscuss – the successor to a list named ‘WSFDiscuss’ started in 2005 - is an open, unmoderated, and self-organising forum for the exchange of information and views on the experience, practice, and theory of social and political movement at any level (local, national, regional, and global), including the World Social Forum. Join in ! **
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____________________________
Jai Sen
Independent researcher, editor; Senior Fellow at the School of International Development and Globalisation Studies at the University of Ottawa
jai.sen at cacim.net <mailto:jai.sen at cacim.net>
Now based in New Delhi, India (+91-98189 11325) and in Ottawa, Canada, on unceded and unsurrendered Anishinaabe territory (+1-613-282 2900)
CURRENT / RECENT publications :
Jai Sen, ed, 2018a – The Movements of Movements, Part 2 : Rethinking Our Dance. Ebook and hard copy available at PM Press <http://www.pmpress.org/>
Jai Sen, ed, 2018b – The Movements of Movements, Part 1 : What Makes Us Move ? (Indian edition). New Delhi : AuthorsUpfront, in collaboration with OpenWord and PM Press. Hard copy available at MOM1AmazonIN <https://www.amazon.in/dp/9387280101/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1522884070&sr=8-2&keywords=movements+of+movements+jai+sen>, MOM1Flipkart <https://www.flipkart.com/the-movements-of-movements/p/itmf3zg7h79ecpgj?pid=9789387280106&lid=LSTBOK9789387280106NBA1CH&marketplace=FLIPKART&srno=s_1_1&otracker=search&fm=SEARCH&iid=ff35b702-e6a8-4423-b014-16c84f6f0092.9789387280106.SEARCH&ppt=Search%20Page>, and MOM1AUpFront <http://www.authorsupfront.com/movements.htm>
Jai Sen, ed, 2017 – The Movements of Movements, Part 1 : What Makes Us Move ?. New Delhi : OpenWord and Oakland, CA : PM Press. Ebook and hard copy available at PM Press <http://www.pmpress.org/>
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