[WSMDiscuss] World Social Forum: Pre-call to movements

[Carminda Mac Lorin]

Dear Jai,

Thanks for including me in this conversation. And thanks to Francine and
Rita for your inputs. I'm adding to this thread our friends from the
Norvegian Social Forum, as I am pretty sure that they will be interested to
hear more about what's going on with the WSF, and maybe to give their input
from another perspective. Thanks Jai for opening this space for dialogue.

I have been following at a the distance the developments of the mexican
initiative for the next WSF. I didn't have the opportunity to be in Porto
Alegre during the last IC meeting in Porto Alegre, so it is difficult to
give my opinion on what is going on precisely. I've heard and read many
different opinions, and two things seem evident to me: 1) Beyond the
different points raised by Rita, there is no clear consensus about what is
happening, nor about what should happen ; 2) the space/actor debate is as
present as always.

I believe that the debate proposed in June is more than pertinent and could
give some clarity. But only if all the different actors are ready to listen
to each other with respect. And if a concrete methodology is proposed to be
able to go beyond the juxtaposition of opinions, to build up consent and
mobilization. Furthermore, a broad and active support the IC to the local
WSF organizing comittee is fundamental.

These are and have been concrete challenges for the IC for many years.

The present situation brings up some memories about how difficult it is to
find the perfect conditions for the organization of a WSF. I'm not
surprised that tensions subsist, they are inherent to the WSF. The question
now is, will we be able to acknowledge that tensions can be the motor of
creative utopias that make us move forward - like the horizon that moves
back with every step we make (as Galeano used to say)? A horizon that is
hopefully plural and open-ended, and that is needed more that ever!

That said, if some of you want to pursue this conversation, I would be glad
to have an informal moment to share about the WSF on May 23rd, during the
2nd edition of the Viral Open Space (online social forum proposed to
connect positive responses in the context of Covid-19 -
www.viralopenspace.net). What do you think Rita, Francine, Jai, Chico,
Tyler, Ole (were you thinking on proposing an activity like this, as you
already did during the first Viral Open Space?), and the other friends in
this list ?

I am finally finishing my PhD thesis (on transnational spaces of
mobilization, including Occupy, Global Square, the WSF 2013 and 2016), so
kindly excuse me if I am slow to respond. I will have more time after May
19.

Stay safe, positive and creative :)

Carminda


*Carminda Mac Lorin*

General Director - *Katalizo* <http://www.katalizo.org>

RÏSE <http://www.rise-global.ca> / Viral Open Space
<http://www.viralopenspace.net>

carminda.maclorin at katalizo.org

*www.katalizo.org <http://www.katalizo.org>*

On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 5:38 PM Jai Sen <jai.sen at cacim.net> wrote:

> Wednesday, May 6, 2020
>
>
>
> Dear Francine
>
> Thanks for your further mail, and for the attachments.  I at least have
> found both your mail and the attachment/s very useful to read.
>
> Dear Rita
>
>             Thanks for your mail too.  Again, I found it very useful to
> read, and especially when read together with the attachment/s that Francine
> sent.  I now have some idea of the sequence in which things happened, and
> of what transpired.
>
>             There were bound to be differences of opinion, and it seems
> that there were.  That is in the nature of all ‘our’ work, and very much of
> the Forum.  But from both your mails, it seems that the differences perhaps
> also crossed certain important lines that are more difficult to handle.
> The interpretation of the WSF’s Charter was always very subjective, and
> left itself open to a very wide berth of opinions.
>
> We have not heard from any of the people I copied in and requested that
> they come in and offer their views.  But that was only yesterday.  So I’m
> copying them in here too, and am still hoping that they will come in - but
> soon; there is so much happening in the world at the moment that it is
> difficult to keep attention hanging !
>
> This said, I guess to have to make clear that this list of course cannot
> be a place for any resolution of differences.  But as a relatively open
> space, it can perhaps offer a space for different opinions and analyses to
> be put forward, which might be helpful, since they are likely to carefully
> formulated, so that a more comprehensive perspective becomes available; and
> where – since this list has many people with a wide range of experience on
> it -, it could well be that there may be some useful insights put forward,
> and suggestions made.  The time space that a list offers is also different
> from a real-time exchange, giving time for digestion and reflection.  I’m
> hoping so.
>
> In solidarity and in hope –
>
>
>
> Jai
>
> On May 5, 2020, at 2:27 PM, Rita Freire <freirefreirerita at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Dear Francine
>
> Grateful for the frankness that is characteristic of you, I would like to
> add some aspects that this discussion group should also consider.
>
> The consultation on whether or not there is an WSF 2021 in Mexico was made
> by deliberation of the International Council itself alongside other
> decisions taken at the January meeting in Porto Alegre, and not by any
> Mexican committee, and so I stick to its effects.
>
> The January decisions were
>
> 1) Do not call WSF 2021 until after a dialogue with organizations inside
> and outside the process.
> 2) Prepare a pre-call as the base text for this dialogue
> 3) Maintain the WSF 2021 proposal in Mexico as "indicative", awaiting
> acceptance and commitment from the organizations consulted within and
> outside the International Council.
>
> *Post meeting in Porto Alegre*
>
> 1) The coronavirus crisis has made dialogue the more urgent step to
> determine how the WSF process can contribute so that civil society can
> influence the situation
> 2) As a face-to-face debate is not possible, this dialogue must take place
> over the internet and is being proposed for June.
> 3) Consultations on movements, next to the pre-call, are just beginning.
>
> *In Mexico*
>
> I agree with Francine that the Mexican process is going through turbulence
> in some aspects. However, it is natural for this to happen, since
>  this is not yet clearly guided by an official decision of the
> International Council, even if there is the collaboration of some
> organizations more attentive to the process.
>
> Our contributions do not always lead to what we seek. Francine even took
> part in a debate with Mexican organizations to which was posed, especially
> by Boaventura, the possibility that the Mexicans would refound the WSF,
> changing the charter of principles. This also created natural confusion, as
> the WSF in México was just an initial proposal.
>
> As some participants are still arriving at the process, without really
> understanding it, they interpreted the criticism in their own way. They
> want to be admitted to facilitate the process, despite disagreeing with the
> existence of neoliberalism in the world and advocated for the services of
> corporations such as google. This has led facilitating organizations to
> invoke the Charter of Principles as a condition for joining a facilitating
> group. This attitude, although aimed at protecting organizational
> instances, contradicted those who criticize aspects of the letter, even for
> more noble reasons.
>
> None of this turbulence seems to me a reason to decide the future of the
> WSF or if we should have a 2021 edition in Mexico. Mexican construction
> will find its way at the moment when international organizations and
> movements take over the process together with local organizations.
>
> What is on the table is the need for dialogue between organizations on the
> next steps of the WSF at this time. Making this dialogue was the decision
> of Porto Alegre, with openness to proposals for changes in direction. This
> call is still the last major event in the process. The consultation that
> begins is the present fact. The next one will be the success or not of the
> June meeting.
>
>
>
>
> I hope Francine is there.
>
> Em ter., 5 de mai. de 2020 às 13:07, Francine Mestrum via WSM-Discuss <
> wsm-discuss at lists.openspaceforum.net> escreveu:
>
>> Dear Jai,
>>
>> Thank you so very much for your answer. I fully understand your reasoning
>> and highly apporeciate the efforts your are making.
>>
>> I understand my letter may have surprised you, but you should know that
>> it is the result of several meetings and notes of the past months. I spend
>> almost 6 months in Mexico last winter, so I was able to attend several
>> meetings and have seen the situation worsening.
>>
>> I will certainly not bother you with all the details of the sometimes
>> difficult discussions. I just add the French and English version of a note
>> of mid- February that will clarify what is happening.
>>
>> Thanks a lot and let us hope this will bring a positive solution.
>>
>> Francine
>> Op 05/05/2020 om 16:48 schreef Jai Sen:
>>
>> Tuesday, May 5, 2020
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear Francine
>>
>>             Thank you so much for sharing with us all this absolutely
>> frank, and straightforward, letter that you have sent to the members of the
>> WSF International Council.  I am stunned to read what you have to say.  And
>> I’m now so glad I asked you to come in and comment – though I never
>> expected that this would be the kind of thing that you might have to say.
>>
>> In responding, I of course have to say that we have to see what you have
>> shared with us as of course only one opinion of what took place at the
>> meeting in Porto Alegre in January.  But nevertheless, what you have said
>> remains stunning, and of course so deeply disappointing to hear.  And if I
>> may add this, I also personally feel so much for you given the crushing
>> disappointment you must now be feeling, given – as all of us who have been
>> involved with the organisational aspects of the WSF know – the many, many
>> years that you have devoted to the WSF, and the hope you have invested in
>> it… and especially at this historical juncture.
>>
>> It is of course not for me to comment as yet on what you have said beyond
>> what I've said above, and so what I'm doing is taking the liberty of
>> copying in here two people I know and respect and who I see from the
>> documents that Tord circulated were present at the Porto Alegre meeting,
>> Chico Whitaker and Carminda Mac Lorin, *with the very personal request
>> to each of you – Chico and Carminda – to please respond and give your
>> comments on the Porto Alegre meeting and on what Francine has said here*.
>>
>> (For those on this list who do not know this, Chico Whitaker (of Brazil)
>> was one of the founders of the World Social Forum, and is widely seen – in
>> his own words ! – as ‘one of the uncles of the Forum’; and Carminda Mac
>> Lorin was one of the main organisers of the FSM / WSF in Montreal in 2016.)
>>
>>             I am also copying in another person who has also been deeply
>> involved with the WSF over many years and who in the past decade was
>> particularly engaged, at strategic levels, and who I deeply respect,
>> Gustave Massiah, of France; for any comments you would like to add.
>>
>>             Let me only add that this return to this subject, on this
>> list - World Social Movement Discuss, which grew out of an earlier list
>> ‘World Social Forum Discuss’ -, is especially meaningful : Because this is
>> precisely why some of us set up the WSFDiscuss list in the first place, in
>> 2006, as an independent ‘open space’ for the horizontal sharing of
>> information on the World Social Forum and for critical discussion of what
>> it was doing, all in order to help strengthen the great social and
>> political experiment that had by then been nicknamed ‘the Forum’.
>>
>> I therefore now hope that we might again be able to do so here on this
>> list, even now…  and I am therefore deeply hopeful that Chico, Carminda,
>> and Gustave, you will reply.  Please…
>>
>>             With thanks, and in hope,
>>
>>
>>
>>             Jai
>>
>> Copy : Chico Whitaker, Carminda Mac Lorin, Gustave Massiah
>>
>> On May 5, 2020, at 4:17 AM, Francine Mestrum via WSM-Discuss <
>> wsm-discuss at lists.openspaceforum.net> wrote:
>>
>> Since Jai, asked my opinion, this is the letter I just sent to the
>> International Council of the WSF:
>>
>> Dear friends of the International Council,
>>
>> You will have received the documents of the Facilitating Committee of the
>> WSF Mexico with a pre-invitation.
>>
>> I would like to explain very briefly why I voted ‘no’ to this proposal. I
>> think that, at this moment, the Committee is not able to organize a Social
>> Forum.
>>
>> 1)     The Committee is extremely weak and all but democratic. Comments
>> and questions of those who do not totally agree with the proposals are
>> simply ignored. It is a very weird interpretation of what they see as
>> ‘consensus’. For instance, as the thematic axes necessarily have to be the
>> result of the proposals of participating movements, I proposed a simple
>> framework within which these proposals can be integrated. Nevertheless, the
>> group continues to work with a predetermined list of axes in which even the
>> struggles against authoritarianism and fascism are failing! You will
>> understand that various organisations already have left this facilitating
>> committee.
>>
>> 2)     In 2021 the WSF will celebrate its 20th anniversary! This is an
>> excellent opportunity to invite movements and organisations that till now
>> did not take part in the Forum so that the process can be enlarged. It is
>> also an opportunity to reflect and discuss the rules and principles of the
>> WSF. This is what a small group of members of the IC has proposed. They
>> want to organize, inside the Forum, a debate on the relevance of the
>> Charter of Principles after 20 years. For these two reasons, they propose
>> to ask all facilitators and participants in the Forum not to ‘agree with
>> the Charter of Principles’ but to ‘respect the Charter of Principles’. This
>> simple change is also totally rejected and people are asked to sign a
>> ‘letter of commitment’ of two full pages!
>>
>> In other words, the current process is excluding and bureaucratic and it
>> lacks the most minimal sense of democracy. I could give you many other
>> examples. Without fundamental changes, I cannot participate in such a
>> process. After almost twenty years of work for and in the WSF, this really
>> hurts. But I think that all persons and all opinions deserve some respect.
>>
>>
>> Op 04/05/2020 om 23:02 schreef Tord Björk via WSM-Discuss:
>>
>> FIY
>> Tord Björk
>>
>> email: tord.bjork at gmail.com, skype: tordbjork, tel: +46 (0)722 15 16 90
>> address: Götgatan 7 A, 29133 Kristianstad, Sweden
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>> From: Mirek Prokeš <mirek.prokes at gmail.com>
>> Date: Mon, May 4, 2020 at 10:39 PM
>> Subject: World Social Forum: Pre-call to movements
>> To: Tord Björk <tord.bjork at gmail.com>
>> Cc: Balint <balint at unitedagainstracism.org>, helga suleiman <
>> helga.suleiman at gmail.com>, Viktor Koren <viktor at iynf.org>, Leo Gabriel <
>> lgabriel at gmx.net>, igor <igorgotlib0 at gmail.com>, matyas benyik <
>> benyikmatyas at gmail.com>, Aktivister för Fred <aktivisterforfred at gmail.com>,
>> Dagmar Svendova <svendova at transform-network.net>, Bilinç Sezgin <
>> bilinc at yeenet.eu>, Marek Hrubec <marek.hrubec at gmail.com>, Kavan Jan <
>> kavanjan17 at gmail.com>
>>
>>
>> Dear friends and comrades,
>>
>> three months after the meeting of the International Council in Porto
>> Alegre, it has today published the attached call and conclusions of the
>> meeting (by consensus).
>> Please spread the call, e.g. post it on your websites and facebook
>> pages/groups.
>>
>> Have a good evening,
>>
>> Mirek
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> ** Inspired by the World Social Forum, WSMDiscuss – the successor to a list named ‘WSFDiscuss’ started in 2005 - is an open, unmoderated, and self-organising forum for the exchange of information and views on the experience, practice, and theory of social and political movement at any level (local, national, regional, and global), including the World Social Forum.  Join in ! **
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>>
>> ________________________________________
>> ** Inspired by the World Social Forum, WSMDiscuss – the successor to a
>> list named ‘WSFDiscuss’ started in 2005 - is an open, unmoderated, and
>> self-organising forum for the exchange of information and views on the
>> experience, practice, and theory of social and political movement at any
>> level (local, national, regional, and global), including the World Social
>> Forum.  Join in ! **
>> _______________________________________________
>> World Social Movement Discuss mailing list
>> POST to LIST : Send email to wsm-discuss at lists.openspaceforum.net
>> SUBSCRIBE : Send empty email to
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>>
>> ____________________________
>>
>> Jai Sen
>>
>> Independent researcher, editor; Senior Fellow at the School of
>> International Development and Globalisation Studies at the University of
>> Ottawa
>>
>> jai.sen at cacim.net
>>
>> Now based in New Delhi, India (+91-98189 11325) and in Ottawa, Canada, on
>> unceded and unsurrendered Anishinaabe territory (+1-613-282 2900)
>>
>> CURRENT / RECENT publications :
>>
>> Jai Sen, ed, 2018a – *The Movements of Movements, Part 2 : Rethinking
>> Our Dance*. Ebook and hard copy available at PM Press
>> <http://www.pmpress.org/>
>>
>> Jai Sen, ed, 2018b – *The Movements of Movements, Part 1 : What Makes Us
>> Move ?* (Indian edition). New Delhi : AuthorsUpfront, in collaboration
>> with OpenWord and PM Press.  Hard copy available at MOM1AmazonIN
>> <https://www.amazon.in/dp/9387280101/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1522884070&sr=8-2&keywords=movements+of+movements+jai+sen>
>> , MOM1Flipkart
>> <https://www.flipkart.com/the-movements-of-movements/p/itmf3zg7h79ecpgj?pid=9789387280106&lid=LSTBOK9789387280106NBA1CH&marketplace=FLIPKART&srno=s_1_1&otracker=search&fm=SEARCH&iid=ff35b702-e6a8-4423-b014-16c84f6f0092.9789387280106.SEARCH&ppt=Search%20Page>,
>> and MOM1AUpFront <http://www.authorsupfront.com/movements.htm>
>>
>> Jai Sen, ed, 2017 – *The Movements of Movements, Part 1 : What Makes Us
>> Move ?*.  New Delhi : OpenWord and Oakland, CA : PM Press.  Ebook and
>> hard copy available at PM Press <http://www.pmpress.org/>
>>
>> *SUBSCRIBE TO World Social Movement Discuss*, an open, unmoderated, and
>> self-organising forum on social and political movement at any level (local,
>> national, regional, and global).  *To subscribe, simply send an empty
>> email to wsm-discuss-subscribe at lists.openspaceforum.net
>> <wsm-discuss-subscribe at lists.openspaceforum.net>*
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> ** Inspired by the World Social Forum, WSMDiscuss – the successor to a
>> list named ‘WSFDiscuss’ started in 2005 - is an open, unmoderated, and
>> self-organising forum for the exchange of information and views on the
>> experience, practice, and theory of social and political movement at any
>> level (local, national, regional, and global), including the World Social
>> Forum.  Join in ! **
>> _______________________________________________
>> World Social Movement Discuss mailing list
>> POST to LIST : Send email to wsm-discuss at lists.openspaceforum.net
>> SUBSCRIBE : Send empty email to
>> wsm-discuss-subscribe at lists.openspaceforum.net
>> UNSUBSCRIBE : Send empty email to
>> wsm-discuss-unsubscribe at lists.openspaceforum.net
>> LIST ARCHIVES : https://lists.openspaceforum.net/pipermail/wsm-discuss/
>> LIST INFORMATION :
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>> POSTING GUIDELINES :
>> http://openspaceforum.net/twiki/tiki-index.php?page=Mailing+List+Posting+Guidelines
>> Old / previous WSFDiscuss List Archives :
>> http://openspaceforum.net/pipermail/worldsocialforum-discuss_openspaceforum.net/
>>
>
> ____________________________
>
> Jai Sen
>
> Independent researcher, editor; Senior Fellow at the School of
> International Development and Globalisation Studies at the University of
> Ottawa
>
> jai.sen at cacim.net
>
> Now based in New Delhi, India (+91-98189 11325) and in Ottawa, Canada, on
> unceded and unsurrendered Anishinaabe territory (+1-613-282 2900)
>
> CURRENT / RECENT publications :
>
> Jai Sen, ed, 2018a – *The Movements of Movements, Part 2 : Rethinking Our
> Dance*. Ebook and hard copy available at PM Press
> <http://www.pmpress.org/>
>
> Jai Sen, ed, 2018b – *The Movements of Movements, Part 1 : What Makes Us
> Move ?* (Indian edition). New Delhi : AuthorsUpfront, in collaboration
> with OpenWord and PM Press.  Hard copy available at MOM1AmazonIN
> <https://www.amazon.in/dp/9387280101/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1522884070&sr=8-2&keywords=movements+of+movements+jai+sen>
> , MOM1Flipkart
> <https://www.flipkart.com/the-movements-of-movements/p/itmf3zg7h79ecpgj?pid=9789387280106&lid=LSTBOK9789387280106NBA1CH&marketplace=FLIPKART&srno=s_1_1&otracker=search&fm=SEARCH&iid=ff35b702-e6a8-4423-b014-16c84f6f0092.9789387280106.SEARCH&ppt=Search%20Page>,
> and MOM1AUpFront <http://www.authorsupfront.com/movements.htm>
>
> Jai Sen, ed, 2017 – *The Movements of Movements, Part 1 : What Makes Us
> Move ?*.  New Delhi : OpenWord and Oakland, CA : PM Press.  Ebook and
> hard copy available at PM Press <http://www.pmpress.org/>
>
> *SUBSCRIBE TO World Social Movement Discuss*, an open, unmoderated, and
> self-organising forum on social and political movement at any level (local,
> national, regional, and global).  *To subscribe, simply send an empty
> email to wsm-discuss-subscribe at lists.openspaceforum.net
> <wsm-discuss-subscribe at lists.openspaceforum.net>*
>
>

-- 

* <http://www.katalizo.org>*
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