[WSMDiscuss] For civil discussion of the war in Ukraine

[Estelle Fein]

Thanks 

Very clarifying 





Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 4, 2022, at 7:58 AM, DAVID KEIL via WSM-Discuss <wsm-discuss at lists.openspaceforum.net> wrote:
> 
> 
> This is to reply to the posting of an attack on Western antiwar activists as "objectively pro-fascist", apparently targeting anyone who opposes US/NATO policy and war aims in Ukraine or who advocates a negotiated settlement. The attack piece, by James Kirchick, is from the 'Atlantic'. It is designed to shut down dissent from US and NATO war policies. Let us be reminded that the US and/or NATO have waged aggressive war on Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, and Somalia, among others, in recent decades.  
> 
> The Kirchick article lumps together the US Republicans who have sometimes voiced hesitation about Biden's aggressive policy, with antiwar activists, who include many in North America who identify with WSM-Discuss.  
> 
> Washington seeks, in the long run, to incorporate Ukraine formally in its NATO alliance and has already incorporated it militarily, effectively running the war with huge arms shipments, training, and constant supplies of intelligence data. The broader picture is that NATO is expanding toward a confrontation with China via links with Asian US allies.
> 
> The war in Ukraine is a reopening of the Crimean war (1853-1856) by which France and Germany seized Crimea from czarist Russia. At stake is Russia's only naval base on the Black Sea, at Sebastopol, which has no historical connection with Ukraine. To expand NATO and to seize that base, the US is rejecting negotiations over Crimea and risking nuclear war.
> 
> Activists in social movements around the world have different views of the war in Ukraine. Some view it as an inter-imperialist proxy war, as I do. Some criticize the Russian role more strongly than others. Some speak out strongly for Kyiv's resistance to Russia. I hope that all agree on opposing their own governments' roles and war aims. In the US, these are expanding NATO to the borders of Russia, opposing any ceasefire, and promoting the civil war in Ukraine that has raged since 2014. By promoting a coup staffed militarily by fascists, the US tipped Kyiv toward incorporation in the European economic and military structures, whereas Ukraine had before balanced between east and west.
> 
> It is not at all true, as Kirchick writes, that "Condemning the U.S. and its allies for the unfolding tragedy in Ukraine requires one to ignore or downplay a great deal of Russian misbehavior." Like World War I, this war reflects imperial appetites on two sides. The stronger side by far is the NATO one. I hope that we who subscribe to WSM-Discuss can exchange views in such a way as to welcome each other's presence and activity.
> 
> David Keil, Massachusetts, USA
> ________________________________________
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